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Eaker Institute Colloquy

The Eaker Institute for Aerospace Concepts

"Building the Final Frontier:
An Eaker Colloquy on the future of the U.S. space industrial base"

December 1, 2000


    Gen. Thomas Moorman: People remember your stories often better than your content, so I will start off with a story. After I retired, I did some speaking. I was speaking to a group somewhat like this. An individual who used to work with me who is now in the private sector was sitting up front. He is key to the story. I said, "Hey, can everyone hear me?" A person way in the back says, "General, speak up. I can’t hear you real well". This guy up in the front jumps up and he says, "I’ll trade places with you. I’ve heard Moorman speak before".

    That didn’t happen too often when I was on active duty in the last few years, but I will try to say something that is compelling that will keep your attention. The subject is the space industrial base. Let me put it in the context of what I am going to talk about and in the context of the AFA, if I can. This was a study that began in the September 1999 time frame. It is about a year old. I will give you the slides leading up to it. I think it is extremely significant to be talking about the industrial base to this group and to besponsored by the Air Force Association.

   First chart. If I talk about the Air Force and specifically the Air Force Association, the idea that the Air Force and industry are a partnership has a long lineage. I would like to think that our Air Force has appreciated this linkage from day one way back to the Army Air Corps. Appropriately enough, the statue that you see when you come in the AFA is [Lt. Gen. James H.] Jimmy Doolittle. And [Gen. Henry H.] Hap Arnold was the first to really worry this problem way back when he was a lieutenant colonel and colonel. He was concerned about aircraft production in 1920s and in the 1930s.

    Everyone also knows about [Dr. Theodore] von Karmen. Von Karmen was the mother of all commissions and the mother of all studies was his studies that were commissioned by Arnold right after World War II. What he did was have as a major portion of one of his volumes, this linkage between the U.S. Air Force and industry and the appropriateness of worrying about the industrial base and the appropriateness of worrying about science and technology as a component of that. Ballistic missile development and production, you may not know this individual [John] von Neumann, but he was the person who really led to a lot of the recommendations having to do with the ballistic missile program and later with the space program. The last person on this chart we all know and all revere and respect is General [Bernard A.] Schriever.

    It is wholly appropriate for me to be at this group talking about the industrial base and specifically the space industrial base. This also has been interesting because the AFA has just sponsored the major symposium out in Los Angeles, which a few years ago changed its focus to worry about the space program in the LA venue, and one of the linkages and one of the themes out there that has really improved, I think, in the last 15 years is the bringing together of the senior leadership of the Air Force as well as the worker bees of the Air Force, with industry. The last few years, you see all the CEOs now come to that and you talk problems that are of mutual concern. That has set the stage of AFA and the relevance of this study for AFA and the U.S. Air Force. Next chart.

    The study that General [John] Shaud [AFA Executive Director] mentioned began last fall and the fall of 1999 and it was sponsored by two folks: Dr. Jacques Gansler, the USDA&T [Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology] and Mr. Keith Hall, the director of the National Reconnaissance Office. Let me try to talk about the context in which this was commissioned. First of all, Dr. Gansler, if you all don’t know, wrote his PhD thesis on the defense industrial base. Interestingly enough, he ended up being a daunting client for Booz Allen. But he was concerned about the issue. But the real driver for this issue is the former Dep Sec Def [Deputy Secretary of Defense], John Hamre. Mr. Hamre was getting a lot of space-related activity being briefed to him in the fall. There was the future imagery architecture decision. There was General Larry Welch’s broad area review on space launch. There were a series of consolidations being considered, and we had at the same time defense stocks beginning to go down substantially. He was the one who kicked this off, and I hadn’t realized in the fall of 1999 how interested John Hamre was in this subject until about a month after we commissioned this, he gave what has now been identified as the famous Martha Stewart speech, wherein he described that Martha Stewart’s company had an initial offering higher than most defense stocks and it was going crazy while our stocks were going down. He took a lot of heat from Wall Street, I might add, on that, but that was what was a couple of lines in a speech wherein he started formally talking about his concern about not just the space industrial base, but the defense industrial base. Quite honestly, God bless him, I think you will see when I go through this pitch why I think it was inspired for him to do that. We were asked to look at providing assessments and options for DoD and NRO consideration. Next chart.

    Here is the task and it was an important task and the words are important and I’ll try to define them for you. It says, is the projected space and industrial base sufficient? What sufficient means is, can we do what we have to do now? Do we have the capacity to do what we need to do and if we look out to the future some 15 years will we have the capability to do this?

    National security, that means the intelligence community and the Defense Department. For the next 15 years, our sense was you couldn’t get any further than that and would there be adequate competition? As we did the study in this case we looked at competition to say, not only do you have two or more in the game, but can they make any money at it? That latter thing is a very important aspect and you are going to see that I have a lot of industrial component to this talk because the idea of making money and being a profitable industry has to be a consideration for the Defense Department. Interestingly enough, this is what was in scope, which were spacecraft sensors, launch boosters and systems integration. Outside of scope, were mission ground stations and the so-called TPED – tasking, processing, exploitation and dissemination. As it turned out, this was big enough without going this way. Next chart.

    I am not going to spend a lot of time and bore you with process, but I will give you a little bit of framework here. Data collection involved talking to everybody who was involved in the business, in the government, in the space business and then going and talking to the 21 major space companies. I am very pleased to say that we got tremendous cooperation from industry. They filled out a very detailed brochure or series of questionnaires for us to give us the data to do this study. They turned it around and we came up with a lot of ways to analyze the data. Interestingly enough, and it shows my short sightedness or what I didn’t understand about the industrial base. When I started this study, I believed we would be talking about technologies, that we would be talking about, can we continue to make the high-tech stuff or do we have sufficient competition in the production of rad-hard parts? Or, solar cells? Or rubidium clocks? Or whatever have you. We identified a series of those. As it turns out, the important thing to me in this study is up here in the macro issues, although we spent a lot of time - to give you a context, I briefed Dr. Gansler for 12 hours on this study in three different sessions. You are going to get the abbreviated form, and even this is probably going to be a little long for you. This is where we spent our time, and I’ll try to do the foot stomping to wake you up about the things that you ought to be interested in, and our outputs were a series of deep dives on a lot of different subjects. Next chart.

    This is an interesting chart in that we now have a data base, courtesy of the industry and the industry’s cooperation. By the way, I should say, one of the reasons we got as the cooperation we got was that – fortunately, I represent an outfit that is not a hardware house so it was easier for people to deal with giving data, but there was concern in the questionnaire. There were four categories of data in the information that we got. The first category of data was not releasable to the government, interestingly enough. The second category was data where the industry had to be obscured – the specific company. Third category was proprietary. Fourth was things you could read in annual reports. With that as a caveat – and I signed up to a series of non-disclosure agreements – we were able to get a lot of data from industry.

    As a consequence, one of the things that it allows you to do now – and this is just a framework, because everyone worries about costs and how you build costs up, what this tells you is, if you are looking at a satellite, about 60 percent of the satellite in an aggregate sense is the payload. About 20 percent is systems integration and about 20 percent is the bus, the thing that the payload rides on. We are able to break the data down to assembly level in costing. This is a very valuable tool now in a costing sense and it allowed us to assess a lot of things subsequently. Next chart.

    Here the people we talked to in the demand source, represent virtually all of the government customers for space activities or the acquirers and operators of space systems. As you note, we also talked to NASA and we talked to NOAA and you may say, what does NOAA have to do, but they are building the next generation of weather satellites and environmental monitors. Next chart.

    These are the industry sources and some of you all from industry will see your companies on here. Twenty-one companies, about 90-92 percent of the business. You may say, gee, I don’t see a lot of the smaller subs. In the space business, as many of you all know, in some cases a prime is a sub and in other cases you turn it around where a major company is a sub and then he’ll become a prime, if you understand what I am saying. There are relatively – the big guys constitute most of the industry. Eight percent are the smaller subs. Next chart.

    Because I never know whether I’ll finish this pitch in my allotted time, I am going to give you the conclusion up front. The foot stomper or the Cliff note to this brief is that there is more than adequate capacity. In fact, there is still overcapacity in this industry, and I will talk to you about that. By and large, there is sufficient competition. I qualify that. The by and large is that we found there are areas, and not a lot of them, but there are certain areas where there is no commercial market or there is not enough government market to have more than one producer. That ends up being what I call a center of excellence. A center of excellence is a monopoly you want. There are a few of those in the space business. I go back to the theme – if you are going to look at competition, the competition has to be viable. People have to be able to make money.

    The foot stomper is the deteriorating financial health of the space sector. It poses a threat to future space industry sufficiency and competition. The thing that was the biggest surprise to us was the financial help. I am going to give you a short financial synopsis on this, but it is based on an awful lot of data. The sub heading on this is excess capacity for both launch vehicles and satellites. There is a growing reluctance for companies to invest in restructuring. The reason for that is, and something I hadn’t realized, is other than the first year or so as people downsized and restructured, the money was not being returned to the bottom line. In the process, it went into the defense process and it did not go back to the bottom line, so the share holders and the boards, when they were sitting around a table, would see and talk about this and they didn’t see the incentive from the Defense Department to further downsize, because they weren’t getting a share of the activity. I think that is an important thing and I am going to talk to you about how OSD and the NRO have reacted to this data. But this is a fact that is now understood and accepted.

    Erosion of key human resource capabilities. A foot stomper for you. When we interviewed the senior leadership in the aerospace industry, the immediate, unanimous unequivocal number one problem for them all was the HR people. Big problem for our industry today for lots of reasons and I’ll talk about that. Another thing that came out that I had not realized and I was a pretty heavily briefed guy when I was on active duty, was some trends that had greatly diminished our innovation. I am going to talk to you about one of those, which was a big surprise.

    Since this chart was made, I think we’ve had three or four additional consolidations, but at the time when we briefed, we said there are going to be more consolidations because of what I said up here. Next chart.

    I am going to talk about macroeconomics for you and it has been a long time since I took economics in college so this is new-found knowledge. I will put it in what I consider a run-Spot-run kind of – that I could understand and I hope it will be clear to you. But the macroeconomics are not good for the aerospace industry at all and I want to talk to that. Next chart.

    This is a transition chart. Everybody has seen the decline of the Defense budget since its heyday, from the 1987-88 timeframe, which was kind of the peak in the Reagan Administration, and you all have seen this chart, but this is a transition into industry-speak rather than military speak. You never see a military chart or a government chart that talks about compound annual growth rates. This in turn is really a compound annual reduction. The compound annual reduction averaged three and a half percent since its heyday. Now, to be sure, if we look out there, it is programmed to go up in the next POM gradually and I should give that. This cuts off at 1999. But this is the transition chart. Now, let me talk to you about return on sales. Next chart.

    Let me explain the chart to you. Return on sales is a metric which is operating income over revenues. This is percentage before taxes. This is the timeline. Let me give you a comment on the credibility of the data and what the data is. The pink line here is data from a Booz Allen data base that has been maintained since 1980 on 200 sectors in the aerospace and defense sectors. A sector would be Lockheed Martin electronics or Boeing military aircraft sales. You can see this line. Then, because our task was space, we cut it by approximately 40 space sectors. That is this blue line. The first thing you do when you look at this is you say, if you are like I am, you look at this one and this one and nothing else on the chart makes an impression. So, let me try to explain what these are. This in simple terms is the cumulative effect of the Challenger accident and Titan. That is the overwhelming thing for the space community. This was the cost of coming off the shuttle and what this is, is right now.

    Now I go down here and this is 1999 and this is pretty precipitous. What I want to leave with you is, 1999 was not a good year for the space business. Not a good year because I will call you back to just a year ago: launch accidents, Iridium and ICO [Intermediate Circular Orbit company] troubles, difficulty in commercial communication sales as a result of the aftermath of the Cox Commission [headed by Rep. Christopher Cox, examining technology transfer to China], and satellites that couldn’t be sold and those kinds of things. Lots of impact on this. As I say, Dr. Gansler, PhD in economics of the defense industrial base, he looks at that and he says, his term, bumpy chart. What should I read out of this bumpy chart? Let me try to put that into context. Remember it is return on sales before taxes and over a seven year period, starting in 1980, this business was about an eight and a half percent business. That is the return on sales. The next seven year cut was about a seven to seven and a half business. This cut gets it down to about seven. While I think this is an anomaly, what we would say is the inflection point or as you look out, we don’t think this is going to come back up to here. The foot stomper is, in a return on sales sense, we are gradually coming down in this business. That is all I want you to know. If I look at the services business, we are up in the 15-20-25 percent return on sales. I am not espousing that aerospace should be there. The hardware business is always going to be different than services, but this isn’t a real good trend. That is all. Next chart.

    Let’s look at return on assets. This is a measure of revenues over average assets. Space, again, same data base. Back here space was a very good business. For one primary reason is, in this case, remember an asset is - the government in the early days, because there weren’t that many people in the business, paid for the facilitization, the special facilitization. In the space business, big things are like thermal bake chambers or things like that. Once you start getting a lot of guys in the business, then the government backed away from that and industry had to start buying their own. That is what you see coming down here. Trends are going down on return on assets. Next chart.

    Here is return on assets trend cut a little different way and now I want to put you in a context so you can put this, so you can have an appreciation. Here is a band that I put on here and the band is – again, I want you to put yourself in the position and what I was trying to get across to the Defense Department and to the NRO leadership, is you need to have some appreciation for what the board rooms of aerospace industries are thinking about when they look at this industry. What this says is same kind of data. Today this is the current yield on a good percentage of our major defense companies have a bond rating of triple B minus. For you all who don’t think in those terms, that is just above junk bonds. The other thing that means and that is – and I’ll show you the chart on this – is when you go out for new money, it costs you 11 percent. Now, you are sitting around this table now and I have to go do a new space initiative or new something that requires me to go into the money market. For that money, I could invest what money I have in a T-bond and get six percent. I am just trying to draw the parallel. That is the kind of things people are looking at as to how good of a business is this. On top of that, and I don’t have a chart to say that, is the U.S. government because of uncertainties in procurements, in some cases people said, "Gee, they are not a particularly reliable buyer. Never buy as much as they say they do and then they kind of change their mind on schedule and whatever have you". Again, I am giving you the talk around the board table. There are a lot of reasons for that. That explains it. Next chart.

    Here is net debt trends and I will say this cuts off at 1999 and that is when I was doing the briefing, was the first part of this year and into the summer. But this basically shows the total amount of debt and I will remind you all that it begins in this kind of timeframe because in 1993 as most of you all know, the Defense Department had a meeting and said, we need to consolidate. Thus, the major industry went into a major consolidation in this decade. How you read the chart is it says, when you acquire, you pay money – my terminology. When you merge, you do it in stock. When you pay money ends up really hitting you in a debt basis and so what this shows you is the way industry looks at by company. Let me qualify here. This works out to be at this point in time, Lockheed had a debt of about $12 billion. If you’ve been reading today’s financial or this week’s financial statements, you see Lockheed is buying down a lot of debt as a result of Saunders and Manassas, you know, BAE. This is going to come down. This is almost a worst case, it is when I am looking at it. You look at Boeing. Boeing was debt-free back here but overwhelming because of their commercial aircraft business. You will identify and maybe even participate in a lot of these mergers. Next chart.

    This is the obverse or what does it mean in another way. This is the BIT – earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation over interest expense. What this says is how much of your walking around money ends up going to service debt. That is what this is and if your ratio was one, it means all of your money is going to pay down the interest on your debt. This is better now on all of these axises. This shows you the circumstance. Next chart.

    This chart probably is the easiest to understand and has had the biggest impact in this briefing. It made a big impact on me and that’s why its here. Everybody I briefed really "gets it" on this chart. This is credit rating, and these are companies --Boeing, General Dynamics (General Dynamics is not in the space business anymore, but they’re on there for comparison), Litton, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, TRW. The first right thing you see is in 1993 --the consolidation business --in every case, our bond rating was better in the industry. The second thing you see is — there are several folks who are down in this area, which isn’t real good. And they are Litton, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and TRW. All go to the marketplace and money costs them either 10 or 11%. Things are a lot better than they were a year ago. Lockheed is trying to raise that, [debt rating], clearly, and buy down the debt. They are paying almost $2 billion to pay down the debt. Next chart.

    Most of you see this in the stock market if you have a portfolio or if you track all this. The easiest way to understand all this is not all these metrics I’ve been giving you, but looking at stock prices. This just says — and this has changed, by the way, which is pretty graphic. Today the NASDAQ doesn’t look so good. The Aerospace and Defense Index, back on January 1st 1996 a dollar in aerospace and defense was worth a dollar and then on September 1st, 2000, it was still worth a dollar. That’s the composite of stock prices. I have not updated it, but its up here. NASDAQ also is down quite a bit. We haven’t done this, but the big message was that [aerospace-defense] was pretty static and this [NASDAQ] looked better. These are normalizing, but I guess one of the messages — in fact--would say to you that Raytheon and Lockheed, I think both, have almost doubles. It turned out that when we did this study, this was about the low point. They almost doubles in stock price in the course of this study. But I would say to you that some of the systemic issues are still there. Don’t be completely seduced by stock prices to say this problem is by the wayside. Another bit factor in why defense stocks are now up — that most analysts will tell you — is that defense stocks being mature are beneficiaries of the flight from NASDAQ. But the message I want to get across is the systemic issues about return on sales, return on assets and debt rating are still there. Next chart.

    I’ll get off this now. The message for everyone and particularly for the government was: we don’t tend to understand industry’s viewpoint or we don’t get financials into our review process. And one of my messages for the leadership is we should. WE should train it in our schools — our acquisitions schools — and we should demand it as part of the acquisition review process.

    Now let’s talk about general findings. This sums up a tremendous amount of data, but remember that "demand" is the government. In the space business, interestingly enough, in the face of all that, we’re going to generally replace all our legacy systems in space in the next 10 to 12 years. So there’s a big challenge on industry at this particular time. From an industrial base point of view, our brilliance in our industry has some impact — some unintended consequences. One is, because they’re so much more capable now, we’re flying fewer satellite systems of a lot greater compatibility. And they’re lasting, by and large, 2 to 3 times longer. That’s all good, by the way. From an industrial base point of view, what that says is greater gaps between starting these things. And what you should be thinking about is: how do I keep industry engages when I’m stretching out the new starts? How do I keep the marching army engaged in doing something and keep them from flying to dot.coms or keep them from flying to something else? Another aspect that comes off of this is that from our perspective our system in the Defense Department looks at acquisition in a vertical way — very program-centric. When you goo to a DAV, you look at a program. The point is, on this chart, we should be thinking about — not only do you have to think that way, but you also need industrial base considerations. You need to look horizontally., when you go to these DABs. You’ve got to have a mechanism that forces you to look at that. A classic case for the U.S. Air Force on the aircraft side is JSF [Joint Strike Fighter]. The biggest issue in JSF is industrial base. Then, in the launch business, we thought that this was going to be OK. And the reason we though it was going to be OK was that Defense and intelligence were going to ride the tide of this commercial growth — and I went around giving speeches on how great it was going to be, so that shows you how good my crystal ball is — but the bloom is sure ly off the rose in commercial space. And I think its going to recover, but it’s not going to be the way we thought it was going to be 3 or 4 years ago with the skies darkened by commercial satellites. And that has great implications for the viability of the launch business. Next chart.

    On the supply side, I think I’ve covered most of this. Increased business risk without adequate returns. I talked about the debt rating, talked about the unattractiveness of investment, I think I’ve covered most of this.

    When we went around and briefed — and we went around and briefed the senior leadership, not only to inform them, but also as a thanks because they really were very cooperative in giving us data to support. And when I did brief them, they concurred in the assessment.

    Now very quickly in a capacity sense — and I’m going to go through this very quickly — this is the result of visiting every company, walking the floor, understanding — even by square footage — how much of their capacity was being utilized in the space business — a lot of support to this. This is large, medium and small satellites. This is 7500 lb satellites and up, what constitutes a large one. Medium is between 3500 and 7500 lb to orbit, and small is 3500 lb and below — just a way of looking at it. And you read this in units, and this is our total capacity to produce satellites of 7500 lb and above. The national security demand is here. Big satellites are driven by and large by national security needs. US civil demand is NASA and this is the next-generation space telescope that falls in this category. And what is says is we — at this point, and I would be pretty comfortable that it’s near that today — are 64% overcapacitized. Now, by the way, we’re overcapacitized in the aircraft business too, and other places. And so the number is not what you should focus on necessarily. Here [medium satellites] we’re 52% overcapacitized, but here’s where the commercial business is, by and large, 3500 - 7500 lb. And that’s why this block looks the way it is. And here’s the national security and civil, leading to this. And here are the smaller satellites, 3500 lb and below. This still, however includes Iridium. Iridium may very well continue — there’s a lot of emphasis to continue. And if it continues, you have to replace it. And that’s in this right now as a replacement for Iridium. Next chart.

    Here’s launch vehicle supply and demand. This just says we have substantial excess capacity in the launch vehicle business. Part of that is square footage, and that’s what this says. And this is added to here because we also only fly about 75% of the manifests. So that has to, in a financial sense, be calculates. Next chart.

    Here are assessments and findings, and you aren’t interested in the specific technologies, but we have detailed briefings on the technology is each one of these areas. As I said, I thought this would be where our whole effort would be at one time. It turned out that was not so. But in blue are the things we found were issues. In green were things you ought to watch, and these were non-issues, where we thought they were issues. Then we went into these kinds of subjects: EELV — that’s the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle — profitability. And then we went into policy and spent a lot of time in here. Export controls — we did interviews, — general procurement issues, R&D and human resources. And as I said, each one of those — that’s why I expanded it to 12 hours for Dr. Gansler — each one of those is a briefing unto itself.

    Here’s the thing — and I’m going to give you the quick Cliff notes. I want you to imagine the acronym IRAD — independent research and development. Think about it as all capital letters. The message of this slide is IRAD today is small "I", a little bit bigger "r", bid "D." Let me explain what that means. What that means is that, because costs have been driven down to a point, because the competition is real keen, you are now buying down risk with IRAD money, as opposed to putting it into innovative research and development. That isn’t a condemnation, it is a sign of the times. But it’s a troublesome sign of the times, and government ought to realize that if you only measure IRAD in the aggregate and don’t go back and look at it, it will be obscured. What you really want to know is how much of your IRAD is truly independent, and how much of it is going to program-specific. And that just shows you — this ends up as about 13 companies, not the 21. And this shows that in 1996, 75% in the space business was truly independent. "Aligned" means aligned to a program. Warranted means the government really signed a contract with industry or industry signed a contract with government that said they would build something with IRAD money to demonstrate capability. Kind of a separate cut. And look at the substantial difference. This is a message to the AFA — I’m privileged to sit on the S&T committee — but this is an important thing, because this has two components, ladies and gentlemen. Not only is it your innovative technology that allows you to stay ahead of everybody else, but something that we don’t appreciate — and didn’t appreciate — the relationship between IRAD and people. And let me give you a little quick deal there. It turns out that IRAD, the innovative stuff, is what gets young people in the door. They don’t want as much to work on program — specific stuff that may have this long-term horizon. They want to work on the real spiffy stuff. I’ll give you a good example: NASA has a very large IRAD budget and lots of spiffy technology programs. Industry — even through NASA’s return on sales is pretty small because of "faster, better, cheaper" and those things. People do business with NASA for lots of reasons, one of which in NASA’s programs get people in the door.

    People do business with NASA for lots of reasons, but one of which is NASA’s programs get people in the door. People get excited about mission to planet Mars and those kinds of things. Not only is it eating our seed corn. But it also is making it harder to attract people. That is my message. And retain. Next chart.

    Now I am going to go to the HR business, because this is the biggie. If I had one thing I really want to emphasize for the AFA and emphasize for industry and emphasize for the government, it is this number one program and it is exceedingly hard for you to read, but these are environmental factors and these are impacts and I am going to touch a few of those. It is a tight labor market, particularly less than three percent unemployment, particularly for electrical engineers, computer software and systems engineering folks. Aerospace and defense has a bit of a battered image. I don’t want to oversell that and get people in a big funk. But the stock prices were down and they are now back up quite a bit, but there has been a lot of bad news and there are few new and exciting programs. Here is an interesting phenomena. This is not meant to be xenophobic comment. This country was made by the immigrants. On the other hand, it has a component in the space business. What this says, and U.S. News and World Report about 10-15 years started tracking, in fact they’ve done it for this year, too – tracking the percentage of foreign nationals in our U.S. educational institutions -- and it is a steady rise, to the point where it is nominally about 40 percent in your S&T career fields in the graduate and undergraduate programs. Big statistics and it continues to go up. There is two aspects about that. Remember, I am worrying about the industrial base. I am pleased that really helps our schools, paying tuition and whatever have you. But I am concerned about two things. One, in the space business, a lot of programs are not available to those foreign nationals because of classification issues. The second thing, contrary -- and this is an intuitive sense, I couldn’t develop any data on this -- but contrary to 20 or 30 years ago, when people were staying. They got educated here and stayed, we are seeing a lot more people go back to their country because their aerospace industry is budding and they are developing and so you don’t have the resource that you once did.

    Here is an interesting thing. This is cultural shift to more fluid career paths. I don’t know whether I have the time to show you the data, but back when I was a pup, and John told you B-47 stories to put you in the context, people came and worked for aerospace companies for 20-30 years. Very paternalistic. Today, the whole system is based on mobility. If you ain’t moving, you ain’t moving kind of thing. All our young people are socialized that you should be moving, particularly in the IT [Information Technology] business. Today, what that translates to is that BS graduates can have a minimum of five employers. That is what the data shows. Back in 1960 it was 1.5. In some cases, it is up around 7 or 8, which is the IT business. A lot of churn in the system.

    Here is another thing, and for you all who represent the senior leadership of the aerospace industry, one of the things we found is that we aren’t making the proper demands on our HR departments in aerospace. What do I mean by that? By and large -- and for any of you who are in this business, I don’t mean this as harsh as it may come out -- but we can do a great job in measuring statistically data, like EEO [Equal Employment Opportunity] data. What we don’t do is we don’t measure the impact of loss of people in productivity, or whether – we don’t have a way of documenting in our strategic planning systems the impact of loss of people on the bottom line, on our enterprise. The tying together of our good people and our measurement devices is not as valid as I think it should be. What worries me about that is if it is the number one problem facing industry today, the HR people have to be part of the strategic team. We have to put demands on the HR people to give us data to tell us what the status of our work force is and the quality of our work force. Very tough to do quality metrics. We can do quantity metrics, but we are not doing real well on the quality side. Continue to make demands on the people.

    What are some of the impacts. This is a greying industry. It won’t surprise most of you all. Space work for us is now eight years older than the average U.S. science and engineering workforce and it is going up. Said a different way, there are an awful lot of people in the business who came in the golden days of Apollo, SDI [Strategic Defense Initiative], buildup of he NRO, etc. Those folks -- this was a great place to be, the space business in the 1960s and 70s -- those people are beginning to retire.

    Here is a phenomena, the aerospace industry in terms of people is about 66 percent as large as it was in 1990. Said a different way, it has come down about 34 percent in terms of people. However, we make twice as many offers to fill 66 percent of the slots. In 1990, interestingly enough, aerospace and defense was number three on the attractiveness scale of companies or industries that you want to work for. Today it is number seven. Just in a decade. There is also a bi-modal distribution.

    Here is the chart that shows you the eight year older and based on a lot of statistical abstract data and whatever have you. This shows you the space industrial base and age. In 1990, the average age was 40-45. If I look at the total, this is what it looks like. What you are comparing is 45 versus 37. Next chart.

    Here is that bi-model distribution. This also is almost identical to the civil service in the Defense Department. Almost a complete overlay. This says 54 percent of our work force is 45 years old and older. Nothing wrong with 45. I’d love to be 45. Some of my best friends are pushing 60. But this is the way it looks. But here look, you’ve got a little trough here. These are the guys who are going to replace these folks. This is that bi-modal distribution. Next chart.

    Here is the enrollment in engineering schools and science and technology degrees. This shows in 1981, green is undergraduate, red is Masters, and blue is PhDs. You can see the trend. Again, I don’t mean this to be a xenophobic comment, but this does have implications – you don’t have as many people to draw on as a result of this. Next chart.

    I have shown you – this was the chart I showed you before and the question is, is it time for the national security community to take a more activist role in industrial base issues. We clearly believed it is and I am pleased to say that both Dr. Gansler and Keith Hall have really taken this on board and there have been a lot of things done and I am pleased about that. I don’t want you to go away thinking that the glass is half empty and in a funk. What I want you to go away is as a disciple that this is not something you have to worry about continuously and pushing your companies and if you are representing the government, pushing the government. Next chart.

    First thing I would say for a lot of reasons, Congress has seized on this issue. I am very pleased about that. In this year’s authorization act, which was sponsored interestingly enough and that is by [Rep.] Dave Weldon [R-FL] and not [Rep.] Curt Weldon [R-PA] and vice presidential candidate Joe Lieberman, sponsored a commission to be appointed by March 1st of next year to look at the health of the aerospace industry. Here the duties and areas for assessment are the budget, acquisition, taxation policies and processes, laws policies, international trade and you can read the export control issue here, which I could wax eloquent on or at least wax, for some time. But I didn’t because I think that has got a lot of national attention now. The space launch infrastructure issue and support for science and technology education. I am very pleased with that and I know the industry associations have been very influential in getting this sold. Next chart.

    Let me tell you a couple things that are going on in the Defense Department. We have seen this year some changes in a couple places which I think are interesting. I won’t bore you to read that, but Dr. Gansler has put out an amendment to the DoD directive which in summary form says you’ll be considered in industrial base issues formally in the acquisition process.

    Let me read it to you: The Department must take all necessary actions to promote a competitive environment, examination of alternative systems, structuring science and technology investments to ensure the availability of competitive suppliers, ensuring prime contractors foster effective competition and qualified international sources. Acquisition technology and logistics decisions will be made with the full considerations of their impact on a competitive industrial base including not only the prime contract level, but the subcontract level.

    Another very tangible thing is the paid cost rule. That is an esoteric thing, but it basically makes a big difference in cash flow. Air Force [Maj.] General [Timothy P.] Tim Malishenko was in the lead in this, who also heads up the Defense Contract Management Agency and what that is, is heretofore primes were not paid until the primes paid their subs. Now, what that did was there was a period of time of about 30 to 45 days of money that was in float and so now the paid cost rule says the primes get paid at the same time. That is a big deal. We are talking hundreds of millions of dollars into the system now 45 days before it was before. That is one of those good deeds of Dr. Gansler and Tim Malishenko and others. The NRO, by the way, has established an office now to work industrial base issues.

    I’ll stop there.

 

Question & Answer

 

Q: We’ve got a lot of momentum thinking about industrial base issues and now with the change of administration, do you think there is a plan in place that will help, not lose, the initiative here?

    General Moorman: I don’t know whether I am the right guy to ask about a plan, but I do believe that on both sides of the aisle there is appreciation of the issue now and to me the aerospace commission will be the thing to provide the focus and so my sense is that I am very gratified with how the government has taken this and I know the Hill is concerned about it. It really gets back to what General Shaud was saying, that this is a partnership and we do not – my view is, in the government, we did not have a sufficient appreciation of the condition of the industry and the long-term uncertainties that it produces. Whatever side of the aisle you are on, you’ve got to be concerned about that.

    Q: The question I have is what the country will actually let us do, and it goes back to some of the things that we worked on before we got out and it has to do with things like Discoverer II, hyperspectral imaging — the real leading-edge kind of work that people would love to get into, maybe even Space-Based laser, but then there’s a lot of reins in the Congress that try to pull these things back, that are afraid of pushing the envelope in a lot of areas. The money is available, and people would like to pursue it, but you can’t get the go-ahead.

    General Moorman: Now I am worried. (Audience laughter) One thing I didn’t – I can’t talk about it. I’ll give you the qualification, but there is another impetus to stand by for and that is all I can tell you. You remember this study was for the national security community – read: military intelligence community. There are three commissions that will also tend to focus interest in the space business that are ongoing. One has just reported out and I commend the NRO report to you. That was published just last week. I am on one that is chaired by former SecDef [Donald] Rumsfeld on organization and management. We by law will report out on the 11th of January. Then there is something called the NIMA commission, which is the National Imagery and Mapping Agency commission, which is also ongoing. I think that will also – in addition to this commission – and I think also things like QDR [Quadrennial Defense Review] and those kinds of change agents will all have space and industrial base kinds of issues as part of it. It will tend to shed light on these issues or the importance thereof.

    Q: You didn’t mention the Boyd Commission.

    General Moorman: [Gen. Charles G.] Chuck Boyd would shoot me in the forehead. There are four commissions – what I meant to say and let the record reflect and please don’t mention to Boyd that I forgot the Hard-Rudman Commission, formerly known as the Gingrich Commission, is also in the end game and has published two volumes already and one of those volumes talked about space, for example, and talked about the importance of space. In this group, we all tend to think about space in the national security perspective, but it talks an awful lot about the economic viability of the country tied to a rigorous and vigorous space program. Yes, that is another one.

    Q: There seems to be some language — to talk a little bit about Dr. Bansler’s 5000.1 directive. There is language in there regarding competition. Now, competition could be beneficial concerning maintaining a healthy competitor base, as you stated earlier. It also can be interpreted to mean as many suppliers aout there as possible — not necessarily an economically optimal number of suppliers given the size of the marketplace. Is there anything in the finer print that I didn’t see in your chart up there that get’s into that?

    General Moorman: I thought I had touched on that, but I probably wasn’t very clear. Our message, and I certainly cannot speak for Dr. Gansler, but our message in this pitch was there is sufficient competition in virtually all areas, but there are areas where competition is not viable because you cannot support two and you should use an economic metric as part of your judge of viability of competition. I believe Dr. Gansler is witting and understands that. As I say, I am a little more bold as a retired type than I was on active duty, but I don’t believe it is wise for me to interpret what Dr. Gansler and his folks meant on that. You need to ask the acquisition folks. Part and parcel of this whole theme here was you’ve got to understand the financial metrics to really understand this business and the government needs to do that. And by the way, it is no surprise nor no condemnation, but we have less industry experience in government than we did 20 years ago. Hard to argue with that. The downside of that is the perspective of industry, therefore, has to be institutionalized into the process because you are not going to have as many people who naturally know that and have had industry experience.

    Q: Your report on the defense industry’s health comes against the backdrop of the Defense Science Board’s final briefing charts that were released last week, and the 27 initiatives that Gansler has commissioned to implement those, including eliminating pay-cost and also changing the bar to allow the bonuses to be allowable. How effective might those 27 steps be in instigating some of the issues you’ve laid out in the space industry?

    General Moorman: What you didn’t see. We had a whole section and we pre-dated Phil Odeen’s DSB [Defense Science Board] study. We had a whole section on what are the things you might do programmatically or policy wise and those got rolled up into the DSB and they got rolled up into a lot of this. I am not saying it is one to one, but they had the benefit of this data and I think they are – a lot of those initiatives will do a lot towards building confidence in the financial community in the industry and I think it will also do a lot towards strengthening the industry just by and large. They are linked together. I went and briefed the DSB for some time...You may not be following what Tony Capaccio [journalist with Defense Week magazine] said there. The Defense Science Board was commissioned to look at this study in a defense context about two or three months after we started our study and they reported out and their slides were just recently released. Our studies are complementary. They were on defense, ours were on space. But I kind of believe what I said there, that space as a microcosm has some differences, because space systems are basically onesy twosy or certainly not hundreds where airplanes, tanks, missiles and things are in the hundreds and thousands. There is the scale issue, but by and large, most of the issues I spoke to apply not just to space, but I believe, to defense. That got picked up in the DSB, that same theme.

    Q: What do you see the defense industry needing from the military and the military from industry?

    General Moorman: Industry needs from the military a good requirements set. They need stability. Stability, by the way, I would like to see more consideration of multi-year programming. The annual budgeting process is a real dilemma and the instability of programs is very difficult. As I mentioned in here, by and large, the Defense Department is pretty mercurial and what I mean by that is we never build as many as we say nor do we ever build it on the schedule that we initially say, when industry has planned out their plan on how they are going to go about that. That creates great perturbations. It goes to everything, across the board. You are not going to change that completely, but one of the ways you could improve stability is multi-year programming. That is, where you have more stability in your program and your budgets may be instead of once a year, you may submit programs two years. Multi-year programming, for example, in the C-17 saved us billions. In the DSP [Defense Support Program] we bought a satellite on the savings of the Defense Support Program from the savings of multi-year programming.

    A huge benefit, for example. OK, good requirements set, some stability and the third thing I would say is an active partnership in communications. Understanding is taking industry’s view of that. We’ve got to do better. We’ve got to communicate better. We’ve got to. One of the -- part of communications here was making sure that the industrial base or industrial context is considered in our acquisition proffer; that we have program managers and our acquisition executives and everyone who is involved in the process understanding those kinds of methods, understanding the mind-set. That doesn’t say we are going to, that I am espousing to the government that they completely take the industry’s viewpoint. What I am saying is we don’t have enough people who understand the dynamics – I keep saying "we", I have to get away from that. The government doesn’t have enough people with that understanding, intuitive sense.

    That was industry to military. What does military need from industry? Better productivity. More attention on innovation. Candor. How things are going. That is the flip side of a communications drill. Candor on both sides of the business. I’ll keep it at that.

    Q: To buy down their debt structure, they may sell off their profitable portions because they are specialized to do aero things and space things. Do you see space taking a bottom line as mergers continue?

    General Moorman: You mean space taking a second priority? I don’t know. I’m not sure I can say that. The merger thing as you saw the merger created the debt picture which created the bond rating problem which created, I believe, a lot of the stock problems.

    But, on the other hand, we have to continue to downsize because we are still inefficient in a lot of areas. We have to figure out the proper way to incentivize and we also have to always be mindful, one of the needs for industrial base considerations is that as you are doing your acquisition strategy plan, one of the recommendations we had was, you are doing an acquisition strategy plan, that is the first thing you do. Industrial base considerations get built into that before you even bid on anything. Industry is involved up there. So that you have some sense of the consequence of your action, that is, as I am building this in, the unintended consequence, if I go down this path, what do I do to competition? What do I do to industrial base? Those kinds of things. Or am I, let me give you an example. It is a micro example. This will probably be in the report, I can’t remember, but I’ll give you example. Up there you saw rubidium clocks. Rubidium clocks are the atomic clocks that go on global and GPS [Global Positioning System] satellites. They are the things that make GPS satellites really work. They are incredibly accurate for a long period of time. There is one company and I won’t mention them, you’ll figure it out, but there is one company that makes it. The business is pretty small for space-based rubidium clocks. The rubidium clock business is terrestrial. This particular house isn’t in the terrestrial side. Because it is such a small business and because the follow-on to GPS is kind of slipping to the right and we may use a different technology, there is a decision that outfit may go out of business. The SPO [System Program Officer] turns around and what does he do? He buys up all the rubidium clocks there are. I am not knocking the SPO, that is what I would do if I were the SPO, but if I were the SAE [Service Acquisition Executive] or something, I would worry about the long-term implications for something that was as important as precision atomic clocks. That is just a very small – the unintended consequence of actions when people don’t have an industrial base mind set. In space, I am not especially worried if it is aircraft versus space systems. I am worried about keeping the good people. I am really worried about that and there are a lot of things in space that are a bit black art and those guys who did the magic back in the 1970s and 1980s are leaving. How do you refresh that and whatever?

    Q: Do you see any competition between commercial space for the human resource people, the innovative people and national security space?

    General Moorman: That is a good question and I didn’t get into that. I had about 50 HR charts/bar charts. I could have bored you to tears. There is some competition. The biggest competition for people who are exiting the space business or the aerospace business, that is, is generally not other related aerospace business. It is generally the dot.coms. Or it is generally the IT business. I don’t think we cut it by – I guess to make your point, you would say the IPOs [Internet Provider Organizations], Teledesics, Iridiums...

    As you say, Loral commercial has had the emphasis here recently. They’ve put their marker down. I imagine there is, but my greater concern is outside the industry, going other places. It comes about because of people’s propensity to move, people’s understanding of their value in the marketplace, people’s desire to make a quick hit. What I mean by that is the only thing about space is you are stretching this thing out, is young people today would like to work on something that has a payoff in two or three years. Space systems may be 8 to 12 years. That is something you have to deal with. We have to have something that keeps them interested. There is another interesting thing. I said they know what their worth is. They also gravitate toward equity-granting outfits. One of the suggestions we had was that industry start thinking about, how do you start getting equity in companies earlier? That is what the dot com guys do. I can give you 50 examples of people who left places because they got equity shares as junior engineers. I will give you another interesting example from the Defense Department. One of the suggestions we had in our line up that is being considered was a compensation scheme. Right now – and I don’t know the exact number – I think there is a limit of $225K or something, which is the top price you can pay an aerospace worker, executive, that is allowable. Everything else goes against profit. Having said that, that amount is determined by a survey within aerospace. My comment when I looked at that was, hey, that is not who you are competing with. That is not the right survey. You have got to survey some of these dot.coms to get a right number. You have got to expand your horizon. That is 1960s/70s thinking. That is not today’s thinking. That is just a little minor drill. Bottom line is, I worry much more about the dot.coms than the equity granting outfits.

    Q: As bad as things look, why do you think there are so many companies seeming to enter the field: everything from Kissler to Mircorp? Seemslike there’s a profusion of new company’s in a whole variety of areas . What’s wrong with all this?

    General Moorman: I am not sure I can answer that because part of it has to do with the allure of space. I think that is a big deal. The idea of having a rocket company that puts a satellite in orbit a new way, is a pretty alluring kind of thing for venture capitalists. You’ve got a lot of those guys. Not all of them are going to survive based upon the manifest that we are looking at. I think the lure is the primary issue. And I think there is also a hope that we are going to find more innovative ways of doing things and that we will put a higher premium on compressing the cycle and space may be a leader in that regard. I don’t have a good answer other than that, because the particular area you talk to is the low-priced rockets. There are a lot of people in that business.

    Q: I’m feeling like you’ve handed me a big disconnect here. I’m waiting for the offsets and I’m waiting for the funding. Do you see it within the capability of te federal government to solve the problem, or do we have to privatize some of the existing infrastructure to really solve the problem?

    General Moorman: That is a leading question, but I kind of agree with the premise of it. I do believe that for support structures, you are going to get more privatization and I think you can ultimately do it quite a bit cheaper. The area I am most interested in or most competent in is space. An area to look at, for example, is the Boeing Lockheed merger with USA – United Space Alliance – and how they are doing in privatizing the shuttle operation. They have had a pretty good scheme and it is turning out pretty well. I think a lot of the support activities will end up getting privatized. Having said that, the great caution in privatization is, don’t go too far because you will end up civilianizing the enterprise which is so important to the military, and how do I provide career paths for my military space folks? That is the balance. But I think privatization is a wave that is coming – outsourcing and privatization.

    Q: The flip side of the privatization question is: do you see certain areas where nationalization ends up having to be a necessity? And I’m wondering whether the national teams that are emerging are actually a harbinger of that direction.

    General Moorman: The question had to do with nationalization and we have seen some national teams occur. We see that in space-based laser. We see that in Advanced EHF [Extremely High Frequency], for example, in the space business. I am not so sure that I think that is the harbinger of nationalization. There were other circumstances that led – I don’t think it was, this is a step toward nationalization. I think it was, in the case I am most familiar with, my personal view, Advanced EHF, it was the team that had brought you MILSTAR [Military Strategic and Tactical Relay] and there was a desire to get it as – the replacement for MILSTAR 7 -- as fast as possible. That was the fastest way to get there. The people who might have competed could get together because of the MILSTAR precedent and also the imperative to do something as fast as we could, I believe, led to that. You need to ask somebody who really knows something, who was in that act. I don’t see nationalization yet on the horizon. There might be a need to nationalize in some thing that is threatened. That would be an extreme step on the nationalization step.

    Q: (From Gen. Shaud) One of the banners flown on the Hill recently, and maybe portends what’s going to happen is recapitalization. I wonder if you could speak to that a little bit, with regard to space. There’s two aspects of that at least one is replacing the legacy systems, which you had on your charts; the other has to do with modernization itself. In other words, stepping into that world of innovation. One of your major points is that we’re not going there. Not only that, we don’t have the people that will take us there.

    General Moorman: The replacing of the legacy systems is a big deal. Let me try to draw a parallel to you which will resonate to the aviators in the crowd or those who really work the aviation industry. This is a pretty unprecedented time for the space business. I want you to think about a sine wave or curves that approximate decades. In the 1970s, we replaced fighters – F-16, F-15. In the 80s, nominally, we replaced bombers – B-1 and B-2. In the 90s we replaced the airlift fleet – C-17. In 2000 we hope to replace the F-15/F-16 with the F-22 in substantial numbers and get a big run on JSF. You can see we kind of spaced it out. Here in the space business, you’ve got this big womp where all the sum total of those sine curves are all now concentrated in this next decade. The decade really is like 2003 to 2013 or 15. That is going to put a big push on a lot of things – money, people, industrial capacity. Those kinds of things. I think we have the industrial capacity business. That is something that is a programmatic issue and a phasing issue and whatever have you, but it is pretty significant.

    That is all part of the modernization business. That is, a space budget for the Air Force is nominally about $6 billion. That is, interestingly enough, even with all that replacement, relatively constant, but it goes a little bit in the out years. The big bubble are things I didn’t even talk about. If you believe that we are going to reinvent Discoverer 2 or a Space-Based Radar in some way, that is another bump out there. If you believe that money that is now being pumped into prototypical technologies, enabling technologies for space-based laser, ends up giving you something, you are out a little further for sure, but that is another big bump on the military space budget. Then the third thing I would say is behind Discoverer and the demonstrator space-based laser is replacing AWACS with an air MTI [Moving Target Indicator] system. You look at that and that is a fairly huge bow wave out to the year 2020. That is a huge modernization challenge. At the same time, the air side of the Air Force is trying to replace lots of things and the Air Force is modernizing a lot of things, but some things are not getting modernized, like the KC-135 fleet for example and those kinds of things. It is going to continue to be a big push. I am pleased and I think a lot of progress has been made in the last year and a half to two years in appreciation of the need for modernization and the increase in modernization. The modernization budget, when I was vice chief for all the services, was about $40 or $41 billion, what we would call a procurement budget and now it is up over $60 billion, which is a good lick. Most people say it has got to get closer to a $100 billion to fit in everything you need to have in there.

    My personal belief is that there will be competition between that is because my sense is we made a huge mistake in not funding Discoverer. Space-Based Radar is a huge force multiplier for the way the United States wants to go to war. It is going to get there. I just can’t tell you when. It is exceedingly important and I also believe JSTARS [Joint Surveillance and Target Attack Radar System] over time is going to be very valuable but it is ultimately going to be done from space.

    Q: Did you look air divestiture as a way to fund the innovational space? Some of these innovations your talking about are substitutes and/or complements for things that fly through the air right now.

    General Moorman: That is a different study. As you know, I looked at that in another study and I think the substitution aspect has to get cranked into the life cycle costing as you think about these programs. I will leave it at that. Thank you very much.

    
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